Comments on: The ‘will’ and the ‘Will’ http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2008/09/25/the-will-and-the-will/ Debriefing the Gurdjieff work Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:41:49 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Darwiniana » Science, consciousness, ‘credit crunch for materialism’ http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2008/09/25/the-will-and-the-will/comment-page-1/#comment-34658 Darwiniana » Science, consciousness, ‘credit crunch for materialism’ Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:47:18 +0000 http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/?p=200#comment-34658 [...] yet it can help to place the issue of mind in a more intelligible context. Another, at this link: http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2008/09/25/the-will-and-the-will/, takes a look at a modern version of Samkhya proposed by J.G. Bennett, which constructs a triple [...] [...] yet it can help to place the issue of mind in a more intelligible context. Another, at this link: http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2008/09/25/the-will-and-the-will/, takes a look at a modern version of Samkhya proposed by J.G. Bennett, which constructs a triple [...]

]]> By: Darwiniana » Dualism and J.G. Bennett’s (triadism) of function, being, will http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2008/09/25/the-will-and-the-will/comment-page-1/#comment-6395 Darwiniana » Dualism and J.G. Bennett’s (triadism) of function, being, will Mon, 03 Nov 2008 02:44:44 +0000 http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/?p=200#comment-6395 [...] is a link to a discussion of the Samkhya approach filtered through the philosopher J.G. Bennett, The Will and the will (it’s a bit murky, because it requires a lot of introductory material which is absent). [...] [...] is a link to a discussion of the Samkhya approach filtered through the philosopher J.G. Bennett, The Will and the will (it’s a bit murky, because it requires a lot of introductory material which is absent). [...]

]]> By: mybrainisafleamarket http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2008/09/25/the-will-and-the-will/comment-page-1/#comment-1518 mybrainisafleamarket Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:27:03 +0000 http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/?p=200#comment-1518 What nemo wrote: "Gurdjieff pointed to something that mathematically ought to exist, but didn’t produce any method or clarification, in part because *he didn’t really want that freedom in those he wished to control*." 'He didnt really want that freedom in those he wished to control.' Nemo, thank you. You articulated something that Ive been hazily aware of, but never clearly enough to code it into language as precisely as you did. Ive read case histories on a variety of G/Fourth Way groups, whether authentic, or faux. Time and again, I noticed how people would be suddenly and abruptly kicked out of the groups. After awhile, I had a strange feeling they were being ejected for having actually grown enough in response to the bits of nutrient in the teachings to reach a point of being just on the point of waking up and no longer needing the teacher. And the teacher, after having told them, 'Grow up' would punish them for having *grown up* by kicking them out, just before they'd have consciously discovered they had grown up..and no longer needed the teacher. So...the students were in a hellish catch 22--they'd be punished for doing the very thing the teacher told them to do, but kicked up before they could get a conscious sense of mastery and autonomy and leave under their own power. Ive speculated that teachers sould do this kind of strategic rejection by noticing when a student would show subtle, non verbal signs indicating boredom, or even skepticism--concealed yawns, eyes less bright, lessened eagerness to smile and perk at up the witticisms of the teacher, slight slumping of the body, brief, flickers of narrowed eyes indicating an unconscious and growing skepticism. A student might not recognize he or she is outgrowing the teacher, but the teacher would know, and would then target that student for expulsion....often by flattering the student, re-ignite the student's loyalty, and then suddenly and viciously ejecting the student with no explanation. Its like being kicked in the head while asleep. A teacher who says, 'Be free, but who actually doesnt welcome your becoming free and who will viciously punish and traumatize you for actually showing signs of becoming free...that can be the most damaging one of all. I think this dynamic may be part of the Fourth Way scene, especially when it goes really, bad. It can show up in other venues, too. What nemo wrote:

“Gurdjieff pointed to something that mathematically ought to exist, but didn’t produce any method or clarification, in part because *he didn’t really want that freedom in those he wished to control*.”

‘He didnt really want that freedom in those he wished to control.’

Nemo, thank you. You articulated something that Ive been hazily aware of, but never clearly enough to code it into language as precisely as you did.

Ive read case histories on a variety of G/Fourth Way groups, whether authentic, or faux.

Time and again, I noticed how people would be suddenly and abruptly kicked out of the groups.

After awhile, I had a strange feeling they were being ejected for having actually grown enough in response to the bits of nutrient in the teachings to reach a point of being just on the point of waking up and no longer needing the teacher.

And the teacher, after having told them, ‘Grow up’ would punish them for having *grown up* by kicking them out, just before they’d have consciously discovered they had grown up..and no longer needed the teacher.

So…the students were in a hellish catch 22–they’d be punished for doing the very thing the teacher told them to do, but kicked up before they could get a conscious sense of mastery and autonomy and leave under their own power.

Ive speculated that teachers sould do this kind of strategic rejection by noticing when a student would show subtle, non verbal signs indicating boredom, or even skepticism–concealed yawns, eyes less bright, lessened eagerness to smile and perk at up the witticisms of the teacher, slight slumping of the body, brief, flickers of narrowed eyes indicating an unconscious and growing skepticism.

A student might not recognize he or she is outgrowing the teacher, but the teacher would know, and would then target that student for expulsion….often by flattering the student, re-ignite the student’s loyalty,
and then suddenly and viciously ejecting the student with no explanation.

Its like being kicked in the head while asleep.

A teacher who says, ‘Be free, but who actually doesnt welcome your becoming free and who will viciously punish and traumatize you for actually showing signs of becoming free…that can be the most damaging one of all.

I think this dynamic may be part of the Fourth Way scene, especially when it goes really, bad. It can show up in other venues, too.

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