01.12.08
MBFM: On Lee Lozowick
From mainbrainisafleamarket:
mybrainisafleamarket said,
Nemo wrote
1. nemo said,
27.11.08 at 5:26 pm
I noticed the reference to Lee Lozowick, another case like Andrew Cohen, manufactured gurus who ran out of gas.
I remember Lozowick from the seventies.
A strangely sad case, who at least realized he wasn’t a guruDear Nemo, LL is still going strong. He has far from run out of gas. But he is discreet. Interestingly, he seems to have influenced people in Europe. If you do a Google search plus a Google blog search, a lot of LL information is in French.
Some additional items for research.
LL has recently emphasized that he practices in the lineage of something called Baul Hinduism, which is indigenous to Bengal. He claimed to be in the lineage of a guru named Ramsuratkumar (note to researchers, a variant spelling is Ramsurat Kumar), now dead. There are some printed biographies of Guru R, and these mention LL, for Lozowick and his followers brought welcome support to this guru. Indian gurus appear gain in prestige when they start attracting Westerners.
In the mid-1990s, Lozowick was interviewed in Andrew Cohen’s magazine
http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j20/lee.asp
However, Lozowick also seems to have had a long interest in Gurdjieff material
In her book The Gurdjieff Work (only in the second edition 1989), on page 113, Kathleen Riordan Speeth wrote,
‘Members of of Lee Lozowick’s Hohm community devoted an entire issue of their magazine Eclipse to Gurdjieff, with the apparent intention of recruiting people to Hohm lectures.’
And…this article by a Lozowick student describes a visit to Paris. They went to Café de Paix, a Gurdjieff landmark. It may also capture the inner dialogue of a dedicated LL student—which does not seem Hindu at all, but sounds more Fourth Way.
(quote from article)
http://sonic.net/~tayu/wayfourth/paris28.htm
“Mr. Lee is driving. He is the center of so much to so many seekers. A modern day spiritual master for whom the sacred and the ordinary blend into one. All moments are about being. Today he is driving his friends around Paris. We have a day to kill before our rooms become available at 7pm……
“Most striking of all, of course, was the Eiffel Tower looming in the immediate distance. I recall once arguing with a school mate in the 4th grade about the reality of flying saucers. I was certain at the time that they did exist while my school mate was quite positive they did not. He argued along the lines that seeing was believing. I argued back that he had never seen the Eiffel Tower but he believed that it existed, etc. etc. We never resolved our argument , but the Eiffel Tower became for me a symbol of faith, knowledge, verification, and trust.
Here it was. Large, imposing, a lot of steel. We wound our way down to its base and I stood under it at the geometric middle to look up and see the vast mass supported above me. Mr. Lee noted that the first time he visited the Tower, he walked all the way up to the top. I longed to perform a similar feat of bravado, but the propriety of the moment precluded it. That urge did find refinement and resonance with inner considerings about whether I was being held back in my Work because of my current life situation. Fortunately I was able to let the bubble go and allow it to float away on the breeze carrying a wave a pigeons skyward.
Later in the day we made our way to the Cafe de le Paix where Gurdjieff liked to hang out. It sits across the street from the old Paris Opera House (Nationale Institute de Musique), and it has been in operation since 1850. We took a table on the street although we discussed that Gurdjieff would probably have taken a table inside which would be more conducive for intimate discussion. Our waiter was a stout, bald, French man wearing the pride of his culture, a black vest, and a white apron. I had a double espresso, Robert a tea, Mr. Lee a decaf espresso, Michelle a cappuccino, and Rob a mocha supreme. Gurdjieff sat here. Was it as stylized then. The place seemed a little gaudy for our tastes. Certainly expensive. Traffic whizzed by. We sat.
Mr. Lee comments on how he enjoys watching the flow. Our conversation turns to spiritual teachers and groups. We (primarily Mr. Lee and Robert) discuss Andrew Cohen, Arnaud Desjardin, students, relationships to the school, and the French spiritual student. The French are not as “New Age” jaded as the Americans. They still retain an innocent enthusiasm that many Americans have exchanged for a sort of “been there, done that” attitude. As we sat and watched the world expand and contract around us, I was reminded of a parable I had once written about a student talking to Mr. G. in a Paris cafe. My own observations from that afternoon may not have amounted to more than the scraps of paper the student held in the story, but my impressions from that moment still persist.
We discussed trying to get reseated inside to bring us closer to the Gurdjieff experience. The waiter would have none of it. He explained in animated French that there is a different bar tender inside, and that waiters cannot be expected to work in conditions where people are always moving between seats, etc. etc. etc. By this time in the day, our jet lag was acute, my nose was flowing freely from airline allergies, and we were becoming hungry. I suddenly realized what Work my ordinary self was enduring, and yet I felt acutely awake. I realized that this is Work. Exhausting the machine so that all that is left is being. Loud cars, honking and fuming, stuffy waiters, people crowding past each other like hive animals, sun, clouds, spring rain, and sitting. Sitting at two little round tables watching the world and my inner state go by.
Sitting with spiritual teachers at the Cafe de le Paix is the ultimate reminding factor. Being with my own teacher is practice enough because we know each other so well, but spending time with Mr. Lee is particularly stressful for my little self. When I am clear, I can simply be with him and that is that. If I consider, then I have started to feel like I need some sort of feedback from him to tell me how wonderful I am. And if I do not get this feedback, then my little self has started to worry what he thinks of me. I have wanted to be on my best behavior so he will think well of me, and yet he is one who doesn’t think of me at all. No act I do will change who I am at this time. And it will certainly not change Mr. Lee’s impression. He does what is necessary in the moment. Telling me how wonderful I am is the wrong thing to do because that is food for the little self.
A teacher is very much like space itself. A teacher sees and permits all manifestations without judgment or comment. One simply exists in his or her presence. If the teacher is your teacher then they can interact with you in such a way that the little self will get upset and you have the opportunity to observe that. And what you observe is not the outer shell of response, the Android part, but the hiding, contracting, essential part. The part of me that wants to be told how wonderful I am obviously is masking my inner shyness cramp that thinks the world cannot like me. So I got to practice just being and not worrying about it. Sitting at the Café then was an exercise in being.
Robert and Mr. Lee talked more about teachers, students, our visit tomorrow to see a Sufi teacher. I talked a little, but I was mostly silent. I was silent sort of like one gets silent after smoking dope. Everything was accentuated, everything intense. I had little to say. The only voices that wanted out were ones that just had things to prove.
(Its interesting that what this student called the ‘propriety of the moment’ kept him frm doing what he said he wanted to do—climb the Eiffel Tower. What a shame that in visiting Paris, he let his own desire to do something, something he might never be able to do again, pass merely because he felt he had to follow the lead of a guru. The teacher had climbed the Eiffel Tower—what a shame the student didn’t permit himself the same pleasure. This to me signals what can go wrong in these unhealthy, spiritually rationalized dominance- submission games. MBTF)There is a chapter on Lozowick in the first edition of Georg Feursteins’ book Holy Madness.
However, Feurstein later became involved with Lozowick in some capacity. His second edition of Holy Madness was re-issued through Hohm Press and contains changes.
nemo said,
01.12.08 at 3:48 pm
I encountered Lozowick’s people in the seventies about the time I intersected briefly with Gold’s gang. In a way, LL was a critic of Gold who, however, never made any criticisms, and his people tried to catch up and absorb Gold’s people as they came out the exit door. They tried that with me, but I wasn’t a Gold person, merely an observer, and soon the same for LL.
Lozowick’s sudden appearance was in relation to Da Free John. I don’t what was going on there, but LL was a sort of DFJ clone or something, disciple or competitor?. Problem is, he had no guru to put on his shingle, the reason I presume for his later trot to India to exhume some idiot to be his guru. LL goofed all the way.
If you follow this game you see why when they tried again (they must have wanted instant Jewish gurus, what is all that about? Gold certainly had complete contempt for most Gentiles and had a secret lineage of Jewish ’successors’, I met one, all the rest were Gentile benchwarmers) they made sure the connection a guru was publically explicit.
One owes nothing to these people given this false game of how they are set up as gurus. LL is less shitty than the rest perhaps. It is hard to piece together the full picture.
Sorry about the commentary about Jews, but I don’t think it is inappropriate. The fact has to be faced that this was a closed game with Gentiles (and not a few Jews) paying the bills. Sorry again, but these people have completely wasted the lives of so many that became entangled in their lies. How to be done with it finally and move on? We got the message, Gurus are totally unnecessary, as is ’sadhana’, that is, if all you want is a shaktipat freebie.
Note and update: It is important to remember that many Hindus and not a few Jews (!) take seriously that idea that their cultures are the only spiritual cultures and that ‘progress on the path’ requires birth in those groups. Behind all the polite words most of these gurus (definitely not all) actually believe that nonsense. This concealed chauvinism explains not a little of what’s going on. (and if the statistical distribution of suddenly ‘enlightened Jews’ suddenly spikes after three thousand years of nothing, then you should be suspicious of manufactured gurudom! The odds are against this situation, so if it occurs, something fishy is afoot.
It is important be wary then if you are a Gentile or you will simply waste all your time. There are absolutely zero grounds for anything anti-semitic here. Pity these fools with their con game.
nemo said,
01.12.08 at 4:02 pm
Now I remember: LL wrote a book called Spiritual Slavery, a totally off color mistake for which he ended up paying the price of being chucked out of the guru game, apparently. That book was totally off the wall in its obsessive tactics over the guru game.
I read somewhere that at some point he burned the book in effigy to try and rescue his reputation.
nemo said,
01.12.08 at 4:09 pm
Here’s the funny joke about LL from MBFM’s link to WIE
This situation is transparent to me, but
LL either doesn’t understand what happened or is being deceptive.
It was always a mystery to me what had happened to LL all of a sudden. Now it is clear what it was, or at least we can guess roughly what was going on.
>>>>>WIE: You have said that Yogi Ramsuratkumar was the source of the awakening that occurred to you one year previous to your meeting him. How can someone be the source of somebody else’s awakening that occurred before they ever met?
LL: Well, to a spiritual master, there’s no such thing as the past, the present, or the future. To us, everything happens very linearly. In 1975, this shift of context happened for me. In 1976, I met Yogi Ramsuratkumar. In 1983, I really dedicated myself to him as my teacher. But to him, when Jesus was born might have been fifty years in the future. And some person that to us hasn’t even been born yet, to him was like a living, breathing presence. Time is completely malleable. So for a master like Yogi Ramsuratkumar, the past, the present, and the future are completely interchangeable. He could shift them around at his will. I can’t describe that according to a law of physics, although I’m sure that’s possible. But that’s how it is.
>>>>
mybrainisafleamarket said,
04.12.08 at 12:51 pm
LL must have renounced that book but good.
Try running a search for ’spiritual slavery’ and lee lozowick on bookfinder.com
That damn thing is priced in the 300 USD range!
PS Nemo, I sometimes am unable to post from home because my computer is old and hiccups and I cannot get my posts to show up on your site.
Other days are just fine.
Hercules Washington said,
30.05.09 at 6:19 am
This is your own self you despise here nemo. You’re lost.
nemo said,
30.05.09 at 1:30 pm
Lozowick is a sad failure, and someone exploited by the guru game.
He has reacted by becoming an extreme ’surrender’ type.
Anyone dumb enough to write a book called ‘Spiritual Slavery’ doesn’t deserve much sympathy.
Hercules Washington said,
31.05.09 at 10:18 am
As I said you’ve entirely failed to understand it. In a childish way also.
You obviously have some sense of grievance – which wouldn’t be surprising if you’ve dealt with these so called ‘work’ groups. But to project that as some great truth ….
This is a ‘hate’ blog and won’t help anybody. How have you got yourself into putting so much effort into ‘hate’?
nemo said,
31.05.09 at 12:15 pm
This is the kind of groupie reaction that is inevitable when you criticize these ‘gurus’ (as if LL was a guru!!!)
Before you call this a hate blog, keep in mind that Gurdjieff said, and in public, recorded as a quote, that he thought the ‘path of love’ had failed and that hate was the answer.
You don’t see the project of hate set in motion by the Gurdjieff circle, figures like E.J.Gold et al.
so it is useless to make this complaint.
The purpose of this blog is to warn people of these operators, and not let them get away with their hate groups.
nemo said,
31.05.09 at 12:15 pm
You say who you are, who you represent, and what you position is.
The Gurdjieff Con » Charges of ‘hatred’ said,
31.05.09 at 12:37 pm
[...] charge of promoting hatred is the other way around. Comment on LL post Hercules Washington said, 31.05.09 at 10:18 am · As I said you’ve entirely failed to understand [...]
Hercules Washington said,
02.06.09 at 4:16 am
The purpose is to warn people?
Each person is capable of assessing anything for themselves.
What a ‘normal’ person will take from this blog is that you (nemo) have a chip on your shoulder.
They might or might not have a look at any guru.
This blog is more likely to have the opposite effect to what you intend. Since if this nemo, who has gone to the lengths of setting up a blog to vent his personal negativity, is hostile to somebody then there might be some merit in that person. As nemo is unbalanced and so cannot be regarded as an objctive guide…….
Now regarding your anti guruism…….. this contradicts itself as you clearly see yourself as some sort of ‘Guru’. You pose as the expert who knows the truth of these things.
There must have been some vunerability in you if you allowed anybody (inc Gold) to abuse you. Therefore that experience was certain to happen somewhere since that weakness needed to be resolved.
Another person would come across Gold, notice that he was perhaps a limited teacher and abusive to students and simply quietly avoided such persons.
What’s the big deal?
Ignorant, dishonest and abusive people are all over. Who has the time for futile campaigns? Who will notice or take interest?
Now. The idea that Gurdjieff advocated ‘hate’ is laughable.
It’s amazing how any sensible person could read that in his his ideas.
What Gurdjieff was getting at was something else entirely.
He was making a point about the abuse of ‘turning the other cheek’ by ‘religious’ people of the West.
This principle is often abused as a form of denial/avoidance of reality.
It does not apply in every situation.
Sometimes, a tyrant or abuser needs to be confronted.
And in such a case appropriate force has to be used.
In a wrong headed way, you are actually doing exactly this with respect to whatever unfortunate experience you had.
I can tell you that aunthentic teachers exist, though they are fairly rare.
nemo said,
02.06.09 at 5:26 am
I think on the contrary that this blog has succeeded in its purpose, leaving people like you frustrated that the standard Gurdjieff propaganda has been challenged. People deserve a warning in their youth when they stumble on this source of darkness and evil.
You don’t get me at all, not a bit, and your information is incorrect and limited, a victim of the whole process no doubt.
You talk about authentic teachers. Great. Gurdjieff has produced zero results in his teaching probably because he didn’t care, and had a different agenda. So he doesn’t rate.
In any case, be off with you. Specify who you are, or else begone.
We have work to do here. You have had your say.
The Gurdjieff Con » Comment from G groupie said,
02.06.09 at 1:49 pm
[...] Comment on MBFM: On Lee Lozowick This fellow has been bombarding the blog with comments, which i disapproved, except this one, to let him make his point. He seems to think that if I criticize the holy G I must have a chip on my shoulder. I don’t, but what if I did? The critique still stands. These groupies seem to think that calling a pickpocket a thief deserves the label ‘chip on one’s shoulder’ from the exposer. [...]
The Gurdjieff Con » Distortions of the Lozowick book case said,
06.06.09 at 3:15 pm
[...] Another comment from our groupie Submitted on 2009/06/05 at 9:57am Further, the point re burning the book (Lozowick) as some sort of atonement for a mistake is an incredibly bizarre misapprehsion of what actually happened. [...]
nemo said,
06.06.09 at 3:16 pm
Comments on the Lozowick comment
http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2009/06/06/distortions-of-the-lozowick-book-case/
jamiah c. benson said,
16.10.09 at 12:52 pm
judging the judge doesn’t work and yet, what the hell!
jamiah c. benson said,
16.10.09 at 12:54 pm
all of our words are soap bubbles. we’re all naked under our clothes.
nemo said,
16.10.09 at 1:07 pm
Is this spam? Say something itnelligent.
agni said,
26.11.09 at 7:47 pm
if only you knew
mr. lee has been working like a slave, for strangers
over thirty years nonstop
he was without exception very generous and kind to me and my family during our association in the eighties
despite the fact that my own guide was from an unassociated lineage
and i brought nothing to the table beyond extra expenses and headaches
he has singlehandedly carried the flame of authentic practice for bauls to the west
anyone sincere/attracted
please have a look for yourself
a rat smells like a rat
and a rose a rose
use your nose
<3
nemo said,
27.11.09 at 2:14 pm
Lozowick is/was a total idiot who had to skulk off to India to credentialize himself (out of desperation) with some guru, any bum off the streets.
Bauls are charming street urchins, but lousy credential types.
Lozowick, I admit, is less blood thirty than Gold, and probably not a gangster, but I share those qualifications myself.
The Gurdjieff Con » Lozowick’s criminal book, Spiritual Slavery said,
28.11.09 at 12:25 pm
[...] Comment on Lozowick [...]
LoudSue said,
17.01.10 at 3:11 am
I came to this site when searching Lee Lozowick, looking for some valid argument against him, but there aren’t any here. Most of what you write isn’t even factual and the rest is just speculation about why he did this that or the other thing.
If you guys want credibility as guru/teacher nay sayers you’ve got to do better than a bunch of name calling.
LoudSue
nemo said,
17.01.10 at 2:17 pm
We have produced a quite devastating critique of Lozowick, if you follow the whole series.
But it is enough that he is the author of the infamous ‘Spiritual Slavery’, a book that essentially destroyed the guru game for many.
Lozowick is not a guru, in any case.
mybrainisafleamarket said,
17.01.10 at 5:25 pm
A website by an French born disciple of Ramsuratkumar named Krishna
Readers will have to sort this jungle out for themselves.
But it supplies a variant vantage–and parts can be read in both English and French.
http://pages.intnet.mu/ramsurat/GauraKrishna/Lozowick.html
and references to Manis book
http://pages.intnet.mu/ramsurat/GauraKrishna/Lozowick3.html
http://pages.intnet.mu/ramsurat/GauraKrishna/Lozowick4.html
http://pages.intnet.mu/ramsurat/GauraKrishna/auxpiedsdemonmaitre/1993-2.html
http://pages.intnet.mu/ramsurat/GauraKrishna/auxpiedsdemonmaitre/1993-1.html
Krishna’s diary (French born disciple of Ramsuratkumar)
http://pages.intnet.mu/ramsurat/GauraKrishna/auxpiedsdemonmaitre/1995-1.html
Krishnas diary–more
http://pages.intnet.mu/ramsurat/GauraKrishna/auxpiedsdemonmaitre/1993-2.html
http://pages.intnet.mu/ramsurat/Temoignages/English/MotherFather.html
LoudSue said,
18.01.10 at 12:08 am
Devastating? You can’t be serious. I have read the whole series and there is a lot of pieced together hearsay and a ton of conjecture about things like say, why he burned the book Spiritual Slavery, or why he took up with Yogi Ramsuratkumar,
both things you comment on with your own particular slant, which is ok, we all have our own slant but can you look at it closer without your guru-phobic glasses on.
I suppose what you have critiqued could influence the tourists on the spiritual path,but it is so superficial, it’s laughable. No serious self-investigator would even be slowed down, let alone put off.
Interesting too the links mbiafm put in a post to some critiques of LL by a fellow named Krishna. I have read those too and they seem similar to yours because his
comments do not take into consideration his own personal biases. His assumption is that his perspective is completely objective, free of his psychological makeup.
When you say his first book Spiritual Slavery destroyed the guru game for many
what do you mean? That they were turned off to gurus/teachers forever?
Also what would be your definition of a guru since you say he isn’t one and your definition of failed guru since you say he is that.
Thanks,
Loudsue
nemo said,
18.01.10 at 2:17 am
Thirty years of Lozowick bullshit is enough!!
Leave us alone from this gangster and his other sidekicks, da free john, e j gold, andrew cohen.
Enough is enough finally. Thirty years of these egos.
The Gurdjieff Con » The pseudo-path invented by Da Free John said,
18.01.10 at 2:40 pm
[...] Comment on Lozowick post This commenter must be a glutton for punishment. The reason we haven’t gone into the Lozowick case much is that he is irrelevant, a fart from the seventies out of the backside of Da free John, an equally obnoxious pseudo-guru. [...]
Andrea Tonkavich said,
18.01.10 at 3:02 pm
i’ve been watching this site from a distance, nemo, for some time, although you know nothing about me, your work here (mbfm too) has been very helpful to me. i am a survivor of the type of spiritual abuse the operators you write about here perpetrate. i.e. psychic warfare. it’s invisible, often even within the communities themselves. so as with other forms of abuse, the survivors and those who speak out against them are discredited and seen as ‘unbalanced,’ malicious or just plain wrong. i’ve also observed that people in general and idealistic spiritual seeker types especially are very resistant to even considering such malevolence is possible–exists. it seems it is easier to be angry at the messenger, than to investigate the message or consider more carefully it’s likelihood.
as a survivor, the irony of this is painful to observe, worse to endure–to attempt with sincerity, amidst personal devastation, to create a warning in a public domain about all this and then be disbelieved and attacked. i don’t know much but i do know people would be well served to heed your warnings against these false teachers.
after years of careful consideration i now better understand that the perils of intense spiritual practice will make even the best of us spiritually unbalanced and that as we proceed, (if we can even call it that) the peril gets greater, not less, the temptations greater, our own ego ever more dangerous and out to get us. knock us off the path…so…..i hope i have a better understanding now of the strange paradox of these enlightened masters who behave so abomitably and are so sure they are right about it. i recently heard it called ‘yogi mind.’ really, it is psychosis and to enter into this guru world amidst these people is to participate in shared psychosis.–my experience, my opinion.
time to return to basics. ancient texts, strict morality, our own meditative butts on our own home cushions. etc.
anyway. i am grateful to you for all you have done here and i like to think that many more such invisible ones have heard something here or from similar such resources and have been helped or steered away from danger/harm.
i agree with your more over-arcing observation that the entire paradigm of gurus in this age, or maybe ever, is problematic at best.
the good news we know is that a path for the radical transformation of consciousness exists–is hardwired into our dna. whatever befalls us on this path i have become confident that is the good fortune of a lifetime (and not entirely common) to recognize this path exists and may be travelled (or abandoned) at any moment, in every instant, on a moment by moment basis. to fall off it, it is only necessary to get back on. may we all always have awareness of this, learn from mistakes, and grow in compassion for ourselves and others, perhaps especially the spiritually diseased teachers who have hurt us, others and themselves, so much. in retrospect, i thank my teachers and move on now. may all beings be free from suffering and the cause of suffering. . thank you again, for all you do here on the path of the heart.
The Gurdjieff Con » Ramsuratkumar said,
18.01.10 at 3:04 pm
[...] Comment on Lozowick post [...]
The Gurdjieff Con » Comment from another ’survivor’ (!) said,
18.01.10 at 3:49 pm
[...] thinking in another post, later (perhaps tommorrow) Eloquent comment on the Lozowick series: http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2008/12/01/mbfm-on-lee-lozowick/comment-page-1/#comment-35762 Andrea Tonkavich [...]
mybrainisafleamarket said,
12.04.10 at 9:33 am
A wee tip:
One clue that someone may be part of Lozowick’s ’shtick’ is if, anywhere, you see a picture of old guru Ramsuratkumar.
He is referred to either as a Godman or God child. The poor old gent, now deceased, did not dress in a gaudy manner. Usually had flowers around his neck,a plain cloth turban, big white beard and customarily wore a plain
dark wool shawl. In old age, he tended to sit crouched, hunched over, rather like Santa Claus lost amid a pile of laundry.
If you see a picture like this in someones home or business, you can go online and see if it matches up with online photos of Ramsuratkumar (or Ramsurat Kumar)
Another note: Hohm publishes books, sometimes very expensively in high quality cloth covers and dense top quality paper. One bias is that Lee Lozowick looks young and handsome in the photos.
Can tell you those photos in the Hohm books are about 15 or more years out of date and Lozowick doesnt look nearly as good these days. Too much sun, too much coddling from disciples and too many years of eating well have made him less than photogenic, at least as of 2002.
And, according to the second edition of Speeths book The Gudjieff Work, Lozowick had started out in Gurdjieff work and, according to Speeth, the presentations on G, given by the Hohm/Lozowick people seemed to her to just be a way to recruit for Hohm.
This 1996 article, written years after Lozowick linked with Ramsuratkumar makes clear his basic interest in Gurdjieff work. The disturbingly adultatory article says plenty about Lozowick in relation to Gurdjieff but zero in relation to Lozowick and Hinduism.
http://sonic.net/~tayu/wayfourth/paris28.htm
Be alert, because some honor Ramsuratkumar and insist that Lee Lozowick stole the legacy and is misrepresenting it.
The Gurdjieff Con » Lozowick’s shtick and Ramsuratkumar said,
12.04.10 at 12:07 pm
[...] More on Lozowick mybrainisafleamarket said, 12.04.10 at 9:33 am · A wee tip: [...]
LoudSue said,
21.05.10 at 11:44 pm
A wee tip:
One clue that someone may be part of Lozowick’s ’shtick’ is if, anywhere, you see a picture of old guru Ramsuratkumar.
…..That would make sense since Yogi Ramsuratkumar is the younger
gurus guru.
He is referred to either as a Godman or God child. The poor old gent, now deceased, did not dress in a gaudy manner. Usually had flowers around his neck,
………There are many pictures showing that but flowers where
not part of his regular dress.
a plain cloth turban, big white beard and customarily wore a plain
dark wool shawl. In old age, he tended to sit crouched, hunched over, rather like Santa Claus lost amid a pile of laundry.
If you see a picture like this in someones home or business, you can go online and see if it matches up with online photos of Ramsuratkumar (or Ramsurat Kumar)
…..Or you could just ask the owner of the pic who
the old guy is. Now that would be novel eh? Actually engaging
in conversation.
Another note: Hohm publishes books, sometimes very expensively in high quality cloth covers and dense top quality paper. One bias is that Lee Lozowick looks young and handsome in the photos.
Can tell you those photos in the Hohm books are about 15 or more years out of date
……If you’re looking at a photo of him that looks 15 years old, it’s prolly
cause the book is 15 years old. Either that or the section of the book
it’s in has to do with things from 15 years ago.
and Lozowick doesnt look nearly as good these days. Too much sun, too much coddling from disciples and too many years of eating well have made him less than photogenic, at least as of 2002.
And, according to the second edition of Speeths book The Gudjieff Work, Lozowick had started out in Gurdjieff work
……Nope.
and, according to Speeth, the presentations on G, given by the Hohm/Lozowick people seemed to her to just be a way to recruit for Hohm.
…..And she might be right…..or not.
This 1996 article, written years after Lozowick linked with Ramsuratkumar makes clear his basic interest in Gurdjieff work.
The disturbingly adultatory article says plenty about Lozowick in relation to Gurdjieff but zero in relation to Lozowick and Hinduism.
…..It says plenty about the author of the article who is very interested in the
Work, but almost nothing about Mr. Lozowick.
http://sonic.net/~tayu/wayfourth/paris28.htm
Be alert, because some honor Ramsuratkumar and insist that Lee Lozowick stole the legacy and is misrepresenting it.
…….That’s always the way isn’t it, when the teacher dies, people
pointing fingers claiming others are clueless or posers.
Then it becomes so complicated because one has to check their sources.
LoudSue
nemo said,
22.05.10 at 5:50 am
Thanks for comment. All this preoccupation with Lozowick, Da free john, Andrew Cohen, and worst of all E.J. Gold, is a waste of everyone’s time.
The ’spiritual path’ is relatively clear if you can evade the ‘guru worship’ circuit which attempts to stop spiritual development behind the veil of disciple mania, etc…
And I am suspicious that the ‘god game’ has been brought to the fore to create a ‘path’ that coopts Indian religions with a dose of monotheism.
That is probably what also happened to Sufism at some point.
nemo said,
22.05.10 at 5:54 am
Say ‘goodbye’ to all these gurus and get to work. Deepak Chopra talks a good game, but he gets up and meditates two hours a day.
Look at Gopi Krishna (not the best example): he meditated to the point of visualizing a lotus. etc, etc… (his kundalini obsessions, however, are not very helpful, don’t get hung up on kundalini speculations)
All these gurus in the Da free john gambit are trying to stop the ’search’, i.e. destroy/control the disciple totally. That’s bullshit.
And you can see the result of this Western conspiracy in Andrew Cohen: a fake guru produced to make this racket seem real. Ditto, with Ken Wilbur, save that he is frozen in place and can’t seem to develop at all. Suspicious. OK, why waste your time with these pretenders?
The classic Indian path (corrupted by Hinduistic confusions) is not so complex.
This gang of Western fakes is an attempt to forestall Indian religion with monotheistic monopolies.
However, as we have pointed out the Hindu field is hopelessly confused. The Brahmin game is corrupt and yet controls a lot of the guru circuit.
I know Rajneesh is controversial, but forget the man for a moment and look at the way he revived the very simple ancient Indic stream, visible in the yogic and tantric source traditions in ancient Shaivism. Before Buddhism there was Jainism, please note, without the Mahayana boddhissatwa game which freezes people also. Finding your way through these distractions is tricky. Don’t spend a life being the dip shit for the likes of Lozowick.
I don’t recommend an obsession with monotheism
nemo said,
22.05.10 at 6:08 am
I will put Loudsue’s comment up as a post later today
The Gurdjieff Con » Comments on Lozowick (LoudSue) said,
22.05.10 at 6:15 am
[...] Comments on MBFM on Lozowick # LoudSue said, 21.05.10 at 11:44 pm · A wee tip: [...]
The Gurdjieff Con » Getting past the Satsang guru gang said,
22.05.10 at 6:24 am
[...] More comments: Lozowick et al. # nemo said, 22.05.10 at 5:50 am · [...]