08.11.09
Hinduism in quotation marks
Comment on Rajneesh wasn’t a Hindu
James said,
08.11.09 at 1:13 pm ·
I think it should also be pointed out that the Hindu revival in the 19th and 20th centuries was rather hostile towards Jainism and Buddhism.
Good point: we are using a spurious term anyway, ‘hindu’, which is often as puzzling to Indians as it is to Westerners, who use it in a false manner.
I have been citing Danielou a lot recently. Despite the debatable character of some of his details he unwittingly explained why it is so many get confused on the subject of so-called Hinduism. The whole tradition, sadly, is a mix up, to put it politely.
The point here is that the Jain tradition (whatever that was in the centuries before the Axial Age), next to Shaivism, have roots in the primordial tradition and in period of the Axial transition, before and up to, clearly influenced the emergence of yoga in ‘hinduism’ and the formation of Buddhism as a “New Age’ (for its time) continuation/recreation of the primordial tradition.
We should go over all of this again since it is based on my sudden feeling about the Aryan migration issue, which could be wrong. I will try to explain myself again here. We are up the creek here since claiming that Vedism is a fake construct pretty well makes India a bad destination for pilgrimmage of any kind.
For me it is over when it is over, and I find that everything, and I said, EVERYTHING about Indian spirituality and sufism has turned out to be a bum steer.
mybrainisafleamarket said,
10.11.09 at 10:47 am
Dear Nemo and friends:
I found some study material that might be of use:
First.. Googlebooks has scanned Burton’s book, Sindh and the Races that Inhabit the Valley of the Indus (first published in the mid 19th century)
So..you can read his entire chapter on Tassawuf/Sufism online. The URL given here will plunge you right into Burton’s description of Sindhi Sufism as a political force. But if you start at the beginning and perservere, you can learn some information from Burton about some of the spiritual pratices. One such required visualizing the Pir (a Sufi equivalent of a guru) and then internalizing the image of one’s Pir. This resembles guru visualization practices used in Himalayan Buddhism.
One can see how hazardous such practices can be if used by an unethical and ego driven person who attracts disciples, claiming to be Sufi–and slips in covert use of the potent modern techniques for trance induction..which work far more deeply and rapidly than these older practices described Burton.
Source two: A book on Mumbai entitled Maximum City by Suketu Mehta.
Its a stunning book, both beautiful and horrifying. Mehta interviewed gangsters dancers, movie producers, slum dwellers and his decription of living in Mumbai, and by extension, India, is harrowing.
But..at the end he describes a Jain diamond merchant who decided to become a renunciate and included his whole family in the process. Their renunciation ritual (complex and which lasted for days) and the description of their lives in one of the Jain monastic orders is….words fail me.
I wont say more.
You have to read this book for yourself. It is one book (yet another)
that I am planning to purchase and add to my library.
http://www.suketumehta.com/
mybrainisafleamarket said,
10.11.09 at 10:48 am
I goofed. Here is the URL for the Burton chapter on Sufism in Sindh
http://books.google.com/books?id=gO6pPmYjF5MC&pg=PA204&lpg=PA204&ots=gk6i7vFZXz&dq=sindh+pirs+great+advantages&ie=ISO-8859-1&output=html
mybrainisafleamarket said,
10.11.09 at 10:55 am
I used to want to go to India, too. But when I read too many descriptions of how it impossible to take a solitary walk for exercise and plain relaxation, due to the constant human pressure, I fear that for that reason alone, I would injure myself if I were to travel in India, apart from any guru antics.
I say this with grief because I am fascinated by the arts, especially textiles, the food, aspects of Indian history. I read books by persons like Mr Mehta with great gratitude.
But I fear now that I would have a breakdown in health and possibly sanity if I were to try to travel there.
Richard Burton, writing more than 100 years ago said in the first volume of his Personal Account of the Pilgramage to Medina and Meccah, that Indias
were puzzled by the British precisely because most British residents in India had a peculiar need for personal solitude, a preference that Indians found incomprehensible.
Burton, who needed privacy but could tolerate periods of heavy communal living when necessary, wrote that it was difficult in India for him because one constantly had to respond to questioning, it was impossible to read a book without someone peering over your shoulder, and at night, you often had to sleep in a group and if you found yourself in such circumstances, no one shut up and everyone kept talking until, finally if you were lucky, you’d go to sleep. In short, you never had a moment to yourself.
It doesnt seem different today except that now there are billboards, screeching recorded music and cell phones. But the lack of privacy is as acute as it was when Burton remembered it. That was why he loved being out in the desert.
Wide open spaces.
nemo said,
10.11.09 at 1:43 pm
This blog has two aspects, and your perspective is important for challenging New Agism head on.
The Gurdjieff Con » Sindhus on the spot! said,
10.11.09 at 1:46 pm
[...] Comment on Hinduism in quotation marks mybrainisafleamarket said, 10.11.09 at 10:55 am · I used to want to go to India, too. But when I read too many descriptions of how it impossible to take a solitary walk for exercise and plain relaxation, due to the constant human pressure, I fear that for that reason alone, I would injure myself if I were to travel in India, apart from any guru antics. I say this with grief because I am fascinated by the arts, especially textiles, the food, aspects of Indian history. I read books by persons like Mr Mehta with great gratitude. [...]
The Gurdjieff Con » Burton book online said,
10.11.09 at 1:52 pm
[...] Comment on Hinduism in quotation marks mybrainisafleamarket said, 10.11.09 at 10:47 am · Dear Nemo and friends: I found some study material that might be of use: First.. Googlebooks has scanned Burton’s book, Sindh and the Races that Inhabit the Valley of the Indus (first published in the mid 19th century) So..you can read his entire chapter on Tassawuf/Sufism online. The URL given here will plunge you right into Burton’s description of Sindhi Sufism as a political force. But if you start at the beginning and perservere, you can learn some information from Burton about some of the spiritual pratices. One such required visualizing the Pir (a Sufi equivalent of a guru) and then internalizing the image of one’s Pir. This resembles guru visualization practices used in Himalayan Buddhism. [...]
James said,
16.11.09 at 11:49 am
I guess my discussion of these topics is a bit unusual (from the average Westerner who delves in here) in that I have never had any interest (outside of historical interest) in the medieval to modern (beginning in the 19th century) Indian “spiritual” scene or any of the teachers that came out of it. It was probably because I was first introduced to the Pali tradition and its rather low opinion of Upanishadic/Tantric/Hindu doctrines and mysticism. While I don’t consider myself a part of that tradition, I am glad that I encountered it first as it has given me a reference point to guage the level of these gurus. After getting well versed in it, for instance, I could tell (maybe it is unfair to compare traditions) that Ramana Maharshi, who was arguably the greatest religious teacher that India produced in the modern period, got stuck in an arupa jhana by his description of his “enlightenment.”
The Gurdjieff Con » Pali tradition and Axial India said,
16.11.09 at 1:27 pm
[...] Comment on Hinduism in quotation marks James said, 16.11.09 at 11:49 am [...]