17.11.09
Response to James on Pali tradition
MBFM comments on Pali Tradition and Axial Age
mybrainisafleamarket said,
16.11.09 at 8:53 pm ·
Here is some material that James may be able to help us with. Am glad nemo gave us James information as an article in its own right. It lead me to a very interesting website giving information about Abhidamma—which is part of the Pali tradition James speaks of. (MBTF)
http://www.vipassana.info/nina-abhi-22.htm
Chapter 22 JHANACITTAS
A discussion of rupa and a-rupa jhanas. There are FOUR a-rupa janas.
This discussion is very detailed.http://www.vipassana.info/nina-abhi-23.htm
A discussion of arupa and most interesting information that reaching this jhana does not eliminate defilements that generate harmful cause and effect (aka karma) This explains why so many allegedly ‘enlightened’ persons can still behave in hurtful ways.
(quoted excerpt from a much longer article)“
Chapter 23
LOKUTTARA CITTASA. The Abhidhamma teaches us about different kinds of wholesome cittas. There are kamavacara kusala cittas (kusala cittas, belonging to the sensuous plane of citta), rupavacara kusala cittas (which are rupa- jhanacittas) and arupavacara kusala cittas (which are arupa-jhanacittas). All these types of citta are kusala but they do not eradicate the latent tendencies of defilements. Only lokuttara kusala cittas (magga-cittas) eradicate the latent tendencies of defilements. When all defilements are eradicated completely there will be an end to the cycle of birth and death. ” (unquote)
http://www.yellowrobe.com/practice/meditation/222-the-difference-between-samatha-and-vipassana-meditations.html
The Difference between Samatha and Vipassana Meditations by -Mahasi Sayadaw
(BY MAHASI SAYADAW)
Benefits of Samatha Meditation
Of the two meditation methods, by practising samatha, four stages of Rupa-Jhanas and four of Arupa-Jhanas can be attained. Repeated exercise and development of these jhanas can lead one to further attainment of Abhiñña, supernatural knowledge or faculty.
These miraculous or supernatural powers are:
(i) Though there is one single individual, many can be created.
(ii) Many individuals can be converted or transformed into a single individual.
(iii) Ability to travel through the air space.
(iv) Ability to dive into or go underneath the earth, etc.
These together with many other kind s of supernatural powers, such as knowledge of taking any form, of creating, or causing to appear anything that is required is called Iddhividha Abhiñña.
Dibbasota Abhiñña: It is Divine ear, the faculty of hearing every sound, far and near, loud and feeble, in all the Universe.
Cetopariya Abhiñña: Knowledge of the thoughts of others- i.e. power to know other people’s mind, thoughts or imaginations.
Pubbenivasa Abhiñña: Possessing knowledge of former existences. In other words, power to recollect the incidents of the past existences.
Dibbacakkhu Abhiñña: Divine eye or supernatural vision, i.e. supernatural faculty or the power of seeing all that is taking place in the whole Universe, for example, power to see all physical forms of different beings and of their death and rebirth in the different worlds or heavens.Drawback of Samatha Meditation
Nevertheless, despite the possession of such powers as Jhanas and abhiññas, those possessing these attributes will not be free from the miseries and sufferings of old age, death, etc. On death even with the jhanic states remaining in tact without their being neither diminished nor destroyed, they will be reborn in one of the Brahma Loka or heavens to which the stage of the jhana they have respectively attained would correspond, the particular abode or heaven being determined by the degree of jhana attained.
Then, they will remain in the relative plane of Brahma World or Abode for one world-cycle, two, four, eight and so on, according to the life-span of the Brahma World to which they belong.
When that life-span comes to an end, they will die and will be reverted to the world of human beings or devas, where they will have their new existence. In such an event, they will again face the miseries of old age, death, etc. just as the human beings and devas have to face. If favourable circumstances do not permit by force of his kamma, they can go down to one of the four netherworlds (Lower World of Existences), viz: Niriya (Hell), Tiracchana (Animal world), Peta (World of Petas or Ghosts), or Asurakaya (World of Demons), and suffer miseries related to the World concerned. Therefore, it should be realized that by merely practising samatha meditation, one will not be liberated from suffering and misery.
Samatha and Vipassana
Only if vipassana insight-meditation is practised, one will be able to realize nibbāna and be completely free from all kinds of misery and sufferings, such as old age, disease and death. There are two modes of practising vipassana meditation. They are:
(1) practising samatha using it as a vehicle for the attainment of vipassana ñana;
(2) practising meditation vipassana pure and directly without the basic exercise of samatha.
A person who practises meditation for realization of nibbāna making use of samatha as a frame-work is known as samathayanika which means a person who ‘makes his way’ to nibbāna using samatha as a vehicle.A person who practises meditation vipassana meditation without using samatha as a ground work, is known as suddha-vipassanayanika. If, therefore, a person wishes to practise meditation following the path of samathayanika, he should first and foremost practise samatha.
James said,
19.11.09 at 7:53 pm
I don’t mean to give the idea that the Pali tradition is a monolithic entity as a lot of variation can exist within that fold. Personally, I’m not really a fan of the Abhidhamma (not to say that it isn’t interesting) or the meditation traditions that spring from it (i.e. Mahasi), but the link is useful enough. I usually use the Pali tradition as a reference point because it doesn’t view view samadhi states as anything more than mundane unlike other spiritual traditions and it has a theory of meditative states that you don’t find in other traditions (even the Upanishadic). For instance, you can easily discern that Ramana Maharishi is probably hitting what the Pali suttas refer to as the “base of infinite consciousness.” He said that his experience was non-dual but there is a very subtle perception of “I am” with regard to it:
“Jnana is given neither from outside nor from another person. It can be realised by each and everyone in his own Heart. The jnana Guru of everyone is only the Supreme Self that is always revealing its own truth in every Heart through the being-conciousness ‘I am, I am.’ The granting of true knowledge by him is initiation into jnana. The grace of the Guru is only that Self-awareness that is one’s own true nature. It is the inner conciousness by which he is unceasingly revealing his existence. This divine upadesa is always going on naturally in everyone.”
http://www.davidgodman.org/
“Not even an iota of Prarabdha exists for those who uninterruptedly attend to space of consciousness, which always shines as ‘I am’, which is not confined in the vast physical space, and which pervades everywhere without limitations.”
http://www.indiaoz.com.au/hinduism/articles/karma_destiny_maharshi.shtml
“The four levels of rupa jhana and the four levels of arupa jhana, taken together, are called the eight attainments (samapatti), all of which come down to two sorts: mundane and transcendent. In mundane jhana, the person who has attained jhana assumes that, ‘This is my self,’ or ‘I am that,’ and holds fast to these assumptions, not giving rise to the knowledge that can let go of those things in line with their true nature.”
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai/lee/craft.html
“The formless acquisition can result from any of the formless states of concentration — such as an experience of infinite space, infinite consciousness, or nothingness. Although meditators, on experiencing these states, might assume that they have encountered their “true self,” the Buddha is careful to note that these are acquisitions, and that they are no more one’s true self than the body is.”
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.09.0.than.html
“Finally, although the Deathless is sometimes called consciousness without feature, without end, it is not to be confused with the formless stage of concentration called the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness. One of the main differences between the two is that the dimension of the infinitude of consciousness is fabricated and willed (see MN 140). The element of will, though, can be very attenuated while one is in that dimension, and only discernment at an extremely subtle level can ferret it out. One way of testing for it is to see if there is any sense of identification with the knowing. If there is, then there is still the conceit of I-making and my-making applied to that state. Another test is to see if there is any sense that the knowing contains all things or is their source.”
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/authenticity.html
The Gurdjieff Con » More on Pali tradition said,
20.11.09 at 12:43 pm
[...] Another James comment on Pali tradition James said, 19.11.09 at 7:53 pm · I don’t mean to give the idea that the Pali tradition is a monolithic entity as a lot of variation can exist within that fold. Personally, I’m not really a fan of the Abhidhamma (not to say that it isn’t interesting) or the meditation traditions that spring from it (i.e. Mahasi), but the link is useful enough. I usually use the Pali tradition as a reference point because it doesn’t view view samadhi states as anything more than mundane unlike other spiritual traditions and it has a theory of meditative states that you don’t find in other traditions (even the Upanishadic). For instance, you can easily discern that Ramana Maharishi is probably hitting what the Pali suttas refer to as the “base of infinite consciousness.” He said that his experience was non-dual but there is a very subtle perception of “I am” with regard to it: [...]
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