18.01.10
Comment from another ‘survivor’ (!)
I will let this post stand by itself, and not comment here,
discussing this important thinking in another post, later (perhaps tommorrow)
Eloquent comment on the Lozowick series:
http://www.gurdjieff-con.net/2008/12/01/mbfm-on-lee-lozowick/comment-page-1/#comment-35762
Andrea Tonkavich said,
18.01.10 at 3:02 pm ·
i’ve been watching this site from a distance, nemo, for some time, although you know nothing about me, your work here (mbfm too) has been very helpful to me. i am a survivor of the type of spiritual abuse the operators you write about here perpetrate. i.e. psychic warfare. it’s invisible, often even within the communities themselves. so as with other forms of abuse, the survivors and those who speak out against them are discredited and seen as ‘unbalanced,’ malicious or just plain wrong. i’ve also observed that people in general and idealistic spiritual seeker types especially are very resistant to even considering such malevolence is possible–exists. it seems it is easier to be angry at the messenger, than to investigate the message or consider more carefully it’s likelihood.
as a survivor, the irony of this is painful to observe, worse to endure–to attempt with sincerity, amidst personal devastation, to create a warning in a public domain about all this and then be disbelieved and attacked. i don’t know much but i do know people would be well served to heed your warnings against these false teachers.
after years of careful consideration i now better understand that the perils of intense spiritual practice will make even the best of us spiritually unbalanced and that as we proceed, (if we can even call it that) the peril gets greater, not less, the temptations greater, our own ego ever more dangerous and out to get us. knock us off the path…so…..i hope i have a better understanding now of the strange paradox of these enlightened masters who behave so abomitably and are so sure they are right about it. i recently heard it called ‘yogi mind.’ really, it is psychosis and to enter into this guru world amidst these people is to participate in shared psychosis.–my experience, my opinion.
time to return to basics. ancient texts, strict morality, our own meditative butts on our own home cushions. etc.
anyway. i am grateful to you for all you have done here and i like to think that many more such invisible ones have heard something here or from similar such resources and have been helped or steered away from danger/harm.
i agree with your more over-arcing observation that the entire paradigm of gurus in this age, or maybe ever, is problematic at best.
the good news we know is that a path for the radical transformation of consciousness exists–is hardwired into our dna. whatever befalls us on this path i have become confident that is the good fortune of a lifetime (and not entirely common) to recognize this path exists and may be travelled (or abandoned) at any moment, in every instant, on a moment by moment basis. to fall off it, it is only necessary to get back on. may we all always have awareness of this, learn from mistakes, and grow in compassion for ourselves and others, perhaps especially the spiritually diseased teachers who have hurt us, others and themselves, so much. in retrospect, i thank my teachers and move on now. may all beings be free from suffering and the cause of suffering. . thank you again, for all you do here on the path of the heart.
nemo said,
18.01.10 at 4:59 pm
I said I would comment tommorrow on your post, leaving it visible on top for today. (also, some readers suffer overload, we have had six or seven posts today alone)>
But I can start thinking about the issues in the comments!
Your remarks are very perceptive and touch without realizing it on something that has been an undercurrent of this blog discussion: the real ‘new age’ transformation of spiritual traditions. That’s the irony here: there is a new age but it is not an imitation of the past. And the discovery of a new dimension, seen critically, to the tradition of guruism. That’s the reason the whole institution of gurus is getting subjected to so much heat, especially on the internet where there is an uproar over gurus that is extensive.
The attempts to reject modernity with a New Age postmodern reaction to achievements of modernity has backfired, and one of the results is the attack on gurus because they threaten, not the ego, but the autonomy of the individual, the hard won gains of social/political freedom emerging in the modern world.
The crux of the guru confusion is the surrender of that freedom and the chaos and insanity that creates.
The whole thing is needless since modernity is highly adaptable to the real spiritual paths of greater aniquity.
All this leaves the question of the guru tradition up in the air. We live in any case in a new era, one that is probably moving past traditional guruism.
Why are gurus so necessary? The ones cited here make things worse, as if they don’t understand ego at all, in all their chatter.
In any case, the question of gurus is NOT an absolute in the tradition of Indian spirituality.
Look at the Buddhist eightfold way: gurus never appear there. Buddhism is not an absolute guide either, but the point is that Buddhism, however flawed, and Jainism are our only links to the greater tradition of India. Hinduism doesn’t have that status because it is a corrupted tradition grafted onto Vedic nonsense, and the Indo-European caste system. Those things were totally absent at the beginning of Indian spiritual religion.
Thus part of our problem is hierarchical class system created by Aryan warriors who coopted the ancient tradition and blended it with their obsessions, e.g. caste. The question of Brahmins as spiritual guides is a complete idiocy invented by the post-Axial medieval Age.
There were gurus before this, we see what they were like in Jainism, and perhaps also Jainism. But the truth is that we don’t know how guruism arose, and how or if it became corrupted prior to the horrible corruption of the Aryans.
The truth is that man in modern times doesn’t need a guru. He can get everything he needs from an Internet FAQ. If he blows it then that is his outcome. Sitting around these fakes playing guru is a pointless exercise that results in nothing.
More later
The Gurdjieff Con » Andrea Tonkavich — get anonymous! said,
20.01.10 at 1:52 pm
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