I put Osho in the same category as the eightfold way: he is driving a path down the middle of a lot of confusion, creating some of his own. My take on Nietzsche is right, but as with everything Osho picks up it will be turned into something benign, so my strictures are perhaps barely relevant.
The eightfold way gets a tetanus shot perhaps, and the original somewhat mechanical version seems mysterious now, but still obviously relevant.
Osho is completely open here. But the range of new age gurus is often playing the Nietzsche card in secret: Gurdjieff and Gold are too good examples.
NEVER go into ‘surrender’ mode with these vultures: the Nietzsche game is in the background and very dangerous. And the whole history of modern Israel is pervaded with this shit.
Almost the whole first part of the book is online here, if you work through the different links in order.
The kind of insight Bazaz offers will never get even a nod from these scholars. It is therefore an open question as to how to really study Indian religion.
The OIT/AIT issue has made the confusion even worse.
It is very hard to make sense of Indian religion and its history, and the scholarship is seldom helpful.
The hard clue is the Axial Age and its promotion of buddhism as an offshot. Study monotheism and you see a similar attempt to refine a stream at the dawn of globalization. The Gita is a johnny come lately trying no doubt to compete with buddhism, but the effect is a muddle: the issue of caste enters and clouds everything, read the review. Buddhism was free of all that from the start.
Now, as buddhism begins to enter a setting sun phase the original material is making a global comeback, but it is all hindu shit. Very vital, but its future is unclear.
It resembles the revival of judaism in the wake of the decline of Christianity, and judaism is pure shit in the same way that hinduism is. The future here is unclear. I don’t think judaism and hinduism have much of a future. Buddhism may be dying, but its lessons won’t go unlearned. Supremacist judaism and caste hinduism are such sick jokes that even a crazy world will have a problem here.
The tradition of gurus, where it is really alive can simply reinvent itself, and the influence of buddhism on just such an attempt, Osho’s great commune, is clear and obvious.
After sixty years of Israel the future of judaism is mostly ‘flush the toilet’. The question of hinduism is too complicated to grasp, but the same general historicals structure is at work.
Not to kick a gift horse in the mouth: I would hope to read this ‘alternate’ history of the gita for its factual core. (if any)
Thanks to NK for the link to a new book on the Gita.
It looks to be of interest. But keep a perspective on these scholars. They are not able to understand Indian history or religion.
Still a better factual basis for Indian history and religion is to be hoped for.
Before falling down before the superior scholarship of these western scholars check out Bazaz’s history of the Gita which as scanned and reproduced here almost in toto. I have always been a little nervous the factual background of that book would undermine its cogent challenge to the Gita. That the Gita was caught up in the wars against buddhism is a thesis automatically deleted from these scholarly texts. Bazaz’s book is a curious expose of the ‘neo-brahmin’ counterrevolution. Such a thesis would be unmentionable in polite scholarly circles.
STill, the research must go on. I wish we could get more people like Bazaz, with some upgraded research skills. In any case the discussion of Indian religion can’t be understood without seeing the effect of the Axial Age. The innovation and globalization of Indian relgion center-staged buddhism, but this entered into conflict with ‘hinduism’ coming into its crystallized form that is so confusing to later history in its complex blend of confusions that are impossible to eradicate.
Check out the archives for the Bazaz book.
Indians might ask themselves if they really need the Gita as token ‘bible’. The core of the legacy is somehow far beyond this text.
When getting into these guru quagmires it is useful to go back to the core ‘santana dharma’, of which buddhism is the classic exemplar, turned outwards to speak beyond India. The simplicity of the ‘eightfold path’ is a reminder that the guru game is a complex accretion that is distracting everyone. We can see that the guru question is a barely present. Be done with it.
The issue is important because the new era of spirituality is going to go through a lot of demonic reversals of the legacies of the Axial Age, and that will take the form of a lot of slick devils tricking you into shady paths. Nietzsche and Crowley, with Gurdjieff not far behind (in fact the worst), are two good examples of the coming types. Resist distraction. The basic path is pretty clear and doesn’t have to answer to Nietzsche.
According to Vetter, the description of the Buddhist path may initially have been as simple as the term “the middle way”. In time, this short description was elaborated, resulting in the description of the eightfold path. Vetter and Bucknell both note that longer descriptions of “the path” can be found, which can be condensed into the eightfold path. One of those longer sequences, from the CulaHatthipadopama-sutta, the “Lesser Discourse on the Simile of the Elephant’s Footprints”, is as follows:
Dhammalsaddhalpabbajja: A layman hears a Buddha teach the Dhamma, comes to have faith in him, and decides to take ordination as a monk;
sila: He adopts the moral precepts;
indriyasamvara: He practises “guarding the six sense-doors”;
sati-sampajanna: He practises mindfulness and self-possession (actually described as mindfulness of the body, kdydnussati);
jhana 1: He finds an isolated spot in which to meditate, purifies his mind of the hindrances (nwarana), and attains the first rupa-jhana;
jhana 2: He attains the second jhana’;
jhana 3: He attains the third jhana;
jhana 4: He attains the fourth jhana;
pubbenivasanussati-nana: he recollects his many former existences in samsara;
sattanam cutupapata-nana: he observes the death and rebirth of beings according to their karmas;
dsavakkhaya-nana: He brings about the destruction of the dsavas (cankers), and attains a profound realization of (as opposed to mere knowledge about) the four noble truths;
vimutti: He perceives that he is now liberated, that he has done what was to be done.
NIETZSCHE, PROPHET OF NAZISM
The question of Nietzsche is ambiguous and I am sure Osho was thinking in terms of the world of Walter Kauffman a generation ago: the whitewashed liberal Nietzsche and all that.
That Nietzsche is gone, and it is like pulling a pistol to mention Nietzsche for many people now. You counterattack at once. And fans are suspected of closet fascism.
I have tried to pass Osho off as an exception to the closet fascism of so much Indian guruizing. But the conclusion is not secure. A commune like the Osho world is in danger of rightwing cooptation.
Or maybe not. In any case, Nietzsche is a very confusing thinker and much of the academic literature is misleading.
Despite all this I think Osho’s legacy is a useful study for the left. The question of religion, authority, new age gurus, meditation, and the rest is aptly addressed in this corpus. But I omitted an embarrassing point: this is a very commercial teaching with I suspect an bunch of cryptic financial ‘errors’. We need a free version, and a review of the commune profit motive.
You can pass through this teaching like a neutrino without suffering the kind of nonsense that I have had to deal with.
Osho is just a starting point, and a measure of false teachings in a relative standard. It is useful for materialists as a starting point.
But I am quite obviously no longer connected with any of this, although the level of hatred will no doubt increase for a while.
In a way Osho is the last of the ancient gurus. We need a new formulation that doesn’t require the disciple routine. The whole new age movement has stalled on this nonsense. But so did Christianity long ago.
Osho’s Nietzsche goof Looking at Osho’s book on Nietzsche,I can see a problem in the way he annex’s him to his overall corpus. To call Nietzsche the greatest philosopher who ever lived will prove Osho’s undoing. To me Nietzsche is a puzzle not solved by making a sort of Zorba clone.
Nietzsche is not the greatest philosopher who ever lived, and it is going to create a horde of self-styled ego monsters playing ‘I am awake’ in order to play guru beyond good and evil. But maybe the book is just swamped by a larger flood of such texts. You can change th4e names and the text is about the same.
We need a self-defense version: beware of all gurus til we get straight what the game is. Actually this makes plain the problem I have had with sufis, and their phony sheiks like EJ Gold. The Nietzsche excuse is best way to be lazy, play the crazy wisdom game and act sadistically with mere disciples. That’s about what I got from Osho, so I am on my way, the reward for trying to help attempted murder all over again.
I must stick to the sincerest form of imitation: Osho never had a guru and shows it.
It would be better to try and see a way beyond this mistake of enthusiasm. Kant and then Schopenhauer discovered a bridge to the world of the Upanishads. To trash them for Nietzsche is an embarrassing vulgarity for Osho. Nietzsche turned Schopenhauer into a ritual degradation of the ‘will’ that produced monsters by philosophical shortcircuit.
Let’s make it a rule: if you use Nietzsche to torture disciples the rules allow retaliation.
But first, how about a public discussion of gold’s methods, the meaning of sacrifice, its abuse as magical black magic, ….
It would help to know what is being referred, and a list of gold’s previous history here…,
Finally, for the ‘surrender’ groupies, we need a statement on whether refusal to be a sacrifice is a form of spiritual disobedience…
The nature of the spiritual paths opening up raises the issues discussed here of the verification of spiritual experiences and the possibility of false fronts to discredit a particular guru. There is no solution to the question, and, unfortunately, the example given by me started out nicely but has ended in confusion. Disregard that, be wary, but trust enough (I am pursuing my suggestions to leftists) to consider this attempt to recast a neo-buddhism for the future.
Buddhism itself has foundered in the fallacies of the ‘new agists’ who think modernity the ‘end times’ as the Kali Yuga and that view is perniciously false. It wouldn’t matter much if some of the proponents weren’t prepared to adopt fascist countermeasures.
The Indian stream has survived several of these ‘new age’ transformations, and the reason is its timeless character.
As I can see now the Osho field has been subjected to a lot of malicious occultism and the ‘image’ problem to the glee of those agencies is wavering. But the question is solved on the ground by those who have and will continue to pass through this innovative world to found a new reality for a new era. The older ‘Hindu’ (wrong word!!!) sphere in the nonce carries the original flame but its future is not clear. But it is still a vital core, despite the hopeless confusions created by the ‘Aryan’ hybrid, and it may outlive its first born buddhism, which is beset with a mechanization of its action.
I think that as noted the Osho field is the ‘zeroth’ and foundational moment for the onset of larger movement. It is hard to know what that will be, and I may not have pointed to it at all, but…
Rereading the posts you can see what happens when you try to take over the Osho enterprise: the tiger emerges…My case isn’t very important, but I can at least say I survived ghostly Osho.
I don’t the authoritarian guru style is going to last much longer. Hey, multiple efforts to murder me for insolence have failed.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GAU9LTK/ref=pd_cbs_mov_aiv_1: an interesting documentary on yogis in India. I can’t afford a trip to India, but the world has changed: information is global.
My remarks on primordial Shaivism seem apt in this portrait of yogis with their tridents and shiva worship, there are fifteen million in India.
The fate of this legacy, the source of all the rest, is unclear from these images, but the yogis in question here are in danger of being overtaken by history, globalization, and the ripoff of their energies by the flood of carniverous western seekers.
I have to forgo comment, in fact…
Wandering through the capitalist wasteland via freightrains doesn’t quite match the original.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HIUUNAC: here’s another
There has been a lot of posting here on the ‘jewish question’ and I offered to let a jewish source mediate the discussion: Jack Kornfield. But such a new age celebrity can’t deign to deal with human new age trash like myself. Mr. Kornfield you dont get to not answer.
In any case, what’s the difference. I think I have been harsh, but fair: the case of malevolent jews like EJ Gold forces my suggestion to boycott jewish new age gurus until the questions raised are answered. Gold threatens to do to sufism and the new age movement what Israelis have done to Palestine. Best to be wary. At the same time most jews, like most Xtians are too stupid to grasp the profits in spiritual cannibalism. They are quite harmless no doubt.
Why stop there? This game was Gurdjieff’s demonic path. What blame jews for trying falling all other themselves to get in on a good thing.
Meanwhile Jack Kornfield may have missed the new age movement altogether. Maybe he should volunteer to be a ‘sacrifice’ after the ‘gold standard’. Be fair guys, why just sacrifice gentiles to jewish spiritual glory?
The question of antisemitism, and the jewish question, are going to fall over dead very soon. I think the jig is up with jewish culture, jews, jewish religion. Going going gone.
The issue is simply solved: jews have no special relationship to god. period. The Old Testament is one of the biggest packages of lies ever written. Its content makes religion impossible from the start. Over and out.
https://www.google.com/search?q=reza+aslan&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=np&source=hpReza Azlan keyword search
I have tried to defend Reza Azlan in his debates with the unsavory Sam Harris, but at some point the fact has to be faced that the problem with Islam is not the issue of god (and I am neither a theist or an atheist) but, what…Is there a problem… let it go unsaid for a moment, save the general judgment that all the religions of the Axial Age are in trouble.
For me the question is not complex: the affirmation of a critique of Islam and/or an atheist affirmation threatened the ‘perp’ with death, extreme torture, and certainly taking care to never go to a Moslem country, and/or to remain anonymous with respect to members of that religion.
If this is the case, there is a problem with the religion. In fact, much commentary on Islam is based on fear, and that is not a basis for anything. We must have the right to critique Islam and/or abjure its claimed monopoly on god.
Having read all the works of Idries Shah devotedly thirty years ago, this is another disgusting outcome. The sadists will have a good laugh, but after that fuck you to the end of time. What an asshole shit to create such a quagmire for another hated westerner. Fuck you also. These sufis have to hide their muddle behind an esoteric fake mask. They can’t compete with buddhas
I must depart from the regime of sufi sadists who have atheism on their list of excuses to torment those who stupidly blunder into sufi terrain.
How can I respect a religion that hosts such a mafia of sadists, gangsters and occult demonists as the sufis. Fuck you to the whole communion of Islam.
Leave those on the path of enlightenment alone, or face the war to undo your religion. Destroying the path to enlightenment to render the victim a slave of god isn’t much of a religious program.
My long deliberation over an Osho project was a cruel hoax: lure a defiant non-surrendered into an ambiguous situation, surrender? and try to trash his will, to the point of self-destruction. Well, all his groupies can have a good laugh, at the end of the Osho line.
I can’t be sure that other enemies of Osho haven’t assumed his astral appearance to destroy his work. What was the point? Perhaps the Osho entity’s realization his movement is doomed.
Whatever the case I am done with Osho world, sufi world, buddha world.
What is needed is an independent verification of the classic path to enlightenment away from sufi gangsters, muddled yogis, and mysterious demons like Osho and Gurdjieff. The Tibetans are of no importance.
There is something screwed up with the New Age movement: I have suggested the problem many times: there is no new age, save that of modernity itself. All the movements trying to destroy modernity to refound antiquity’s spiritual movements are disappearing in quicksand. The whole game is rubbish. Osho must have seen the point.
It is a guess of mine that ‘surrender’ in Osho’s case left him without the will to resist the machinations of his enemies who worked to destroy him as he became famous, scoring a good list of ‘scandals’ that will permanently confound the movement. One too many creepy occultists like E.J. Gold trying to fuck up everything they don’t control.
But how would I know. In any case the Xtian movement has powerful resources and I think they are part of the war of gurus, …so much for the paths of being and will.
The correct balance of ‘will’ and ‘being’ is an obscurity that seems to destroy most on the path to enlightenment. At the point of globalization a new way must be found. And that’s the point: yoga on its home ground goes on as it has for millennia, but the global new age movement is turning into a feast of demons.
Meanwhile Osho sannyasins are an exceptional gang of shits. In all of this I have never had a serious interaction, moment of friendship or communication. No mystery there: the Osho vampire keeps them under total control, and fighting your way out is hard, as I suddenly see.
Not home free yet: several attacks a day from the Osho demon, perhaps a sufi out for a romp on Osho’s atheist sannyasins, marked for death and torture.