Shiva and the Primordial Tradition: From the Tantras to the Science of Dreams This may be a dubious scholarly book as the old NK charged, but the accusers still can’t get straight on the Aryan Invasion issue…
Checking out Advaita is beyond my capacity, so far, so be wary of what I have to say, but I have twenty books on the subject tabled for study, and questions are arising already. What is enlightenment, given this alternate literature and to which of the writers in this field does the term apply. It is late in the day to discover this realm. I must have been in an alternate universe (many buddhists and near buddhists no doubt avoid all contact with ‘Hinduism’, and are oblivious), so my judgment is not reliable.
But my trusty ‘eonic effect’ model is of some help.
As I approach Advaita I suddenly feel the Hindu hatred of buddhists and am already (temporarily) infected. Did this generate my recent attacks on buddhism?
Item: The Book of Undoing by Fred Davis, Direct Pointing to Non-Dual Awareness…Advaita is now a form of therapy with a sideline for the Twelve Step Recovery world. Question mark. Someone else will have to provide the answer.
I often reread Danielou’s books to remind myself of the mystery of Indian religious history. He had local unnamed Indian contacts, and his account is unusual. That author’s books may be as dubious as the mainstream ones he tends to indirectly critique.
You may reach enlightenment and still be confused, it seems.
But Danielou is worth reading in case you think you understand the history of Hinduism/Buddhism. It is a VAST universe of so many different strains that noone understands it all. And a lot of commentary even from so-called experts is pervaded with basic errors. My point today is that I often get disoriented by Indian spiritual history. It is almost impossible to get any of it straight. Danielou speaks of a Shaivite revival from the third century BCE onward, something not even mentioned in most books. A whole series of things like that. Maybe nonsense, maybe not.
My point is that basic errors pervade the whole subject. You are then subject to them. If, like me, you step outside you can correct those errors, but it is not a good prospect. So each point of the traditions liable to wrong thinking. (A good example is the real history of Mahayana)…I am ostracized by all the various traditions, plus the sufistic. Why? uppity westerner, won’t say heil hitler on demand.
Clearly I am better off outside the whole game of new age garbage dumps.
Here’s my general perspective, with some help from Danielou (caveat lector, here, his books however have a key, I think). The eonic effect shows the significance of three epochs in world history, or four including the onset of modernity.
5400 to 3000, 3000 to 600, 600 to 1800, 1800 onward with three century lead ups, over exact dates, perhaps. We don’t know what these epochs are, but they obviously represent in my model phases in a dynamic cycle model. This has NOTHING to do with astrology or the cycles of the Great Year which has totally confused everyone.
The question is, where does Indian spirituality come from and when does it start, or show relative restarts…? What, if any correlations does it show with the epoch starts indicated?
Note that buddhism, a clear offshoot of the general line, shows the system in a clear relative restart after ca. 600 BCE (with a parallel Jain post-Mahavir outcome). Hindus were baffled by buddhism but in the eonic model it is an obvious sideshoot giving birth to an Indian contribution to general globalization, like Israelite monotheism. Note that the year 600 BCE more or less is crucial in both cases: a religious stream initiates and proceeds outwards. Note also the utterly remarkable fact that around 0 BCE both streams start to generate a new more general form. Christianity and Mahayana, the latter being connected to the idea of ‘savior’ religions. We suspect a global connection of both cases.
The model distinguishes ‘stream’ and ‘sequence’ and we can see that the stream of hinduism (?? meaning) can intersect with the larger macro effect as in the Axial Age and generate an entity, buddhism, that is shorn from its roots to become an entity in global civilization.
But we have to ask if there were earlier such interactions, e.g. 3000, 5500 BCE. In fact, the eonic process never touches the same area twice, but that applies to the mainline. We can’t be sure there weren’t ‘Axial Ages’ or intervals in these two phase starting points. It seems unlikely, but we have to remain suspicious, and here Danielou himself notes the connection of Krishna, a pre-Aryan figure (?) to 3000 BCE, along with a long Jain sequence (?), and then the resemblance of Shiva and Dionysus: was there a kind of Axial Age in the middle Neolithic? Gurdjieff speaks of a pre-sand Egypt and its generation of proto-Christianity ( a dubious claim, but he may have hit on something).
But a close look at the eonic effect makes a proliferation of ‘Axial Ages’ dubious: they follow a very exact pattern. The issue is important because it is rare to see highly advanced entities like Indian religion arising absent a boost from the eonic effect. But those boosts are strictly related to a larger pattern. It could be that a kind of Axial Age synchrony like the later seeded east/west culture/religion in multiple zones, egypt, proto-sumer, india, china….We can’t conclude that but the issue of the source of Indian religion remains.
Answer, we don’t know, but the middle Neolithic is the obvious source of the phenomenon of religion as we know it in later civilization (e.g. the temple religions connected with agriculture we see in the North of Sumer, after 5500 BCE, etc…)
Indian religion shows many signs of a Neolithic signature. We must look at the beautiful legacy of the Shiva religion with its embedded yoga. So, was the ‘primordial Shaivism’ considered by Danielou as the source of the whole of Indian spirituality (proto-shaivism, yoga/tantra, samkhya, jainism), present in the middle Neolithic, with figures like Shiva emerging in parallel with related figures like Dionysus, or the proto-Isis/Osiris cult in Egypt.
We can’t answer the question, but we suspect that primordial shaivism generated the early jainism which is so reminiscent of later buddhism. When? the tradition speaks of 24 teertankers! And the source of the Krishna cult remains obscure.
This is part of the reason for relative restarts like buddhism: the system simply starts over with a related strain. But the vigorous ‘hindu’ milieu carried a huge number of alternates which seem likely to out-survive the now fading buddhism in the epoch after 1800. None of these proliferations will have any system status the way buddhism did (and probably some earlier version of the shiva cult/yoga). It is a pity but we can’t locate the real starting point of what the remnansts of the Shiva cult obviously suggest: it was the source, as Danielou notes, of almost everything that came later.
NK when he was still here suggested the text whose name I forget discussing the diffusions from Sumer. It would resolve many issues if we could locate a single source of later religions in the era of Sumer, or the epoch leading up to it. But it doesn’t seem to work. There is nothing in the Sumerian corpus to suggest either proto-religion of Egypt or that of India.
In any case, the history of Indian religion is misunderstood by everyone. No wonder.
We have already discussed the lineage of Advaita in terms of the axial age and its interval: a remarkable mystery: fromr 900 BCE to 600 BCE we see the eonic system ‘touch’ the stream and spawn the Upanishadic corpus with a related confusing Vedanta (with a lot of ambiguities). The problem is that this larger system correctly sees the red herring of the Vedas (Aryan legacy stuff) and tries to bypass it as it moves via the ‘Upanishadic’ hinduism through the Jain ending in Mahavir and then buddhism. Advaita then has an apparently clear lineage in this system, but….
It is possible that the source of the Indian tradition lies in the Paleolithic and a continuous stream until it encounters the eonic system, but that is just the point, when and where, before buddhism?
There is another possibility: reaching enlightenment was the ‘natural state’ of early homo sapiens, whose diaspora from Africa (one or many) would have reached South India very early and produced early Indic tribes of homo sapiens still able to reach enlightenment naturally. Who knows?
This streamlined account using the eonic effect works remarkably well considering that it has no connection to actual content, but it is still too fuzzy. The full account of India in the Axial Age is almost impossible to figure out. In part because it ‘stepping stones’ between three legacies, the proto-hindu, the jain, and the to-become buddhism. But this system does not create a world religion from hinduism directly. It feeds an ‘upanishadic’ milieu which leads to the field of yogis that produces buddhism in the end.
So it is important to see that the hindu stream is simply a vast disorganization of ‘this and that’, remnants of antiquity, with hard to understand subreligions, that are all localized Indian traditions. In this sprawl we find the legacy of advaita, which suddenly looks to be shorn of its credentials, leaving a question. It is probably close to the core of the real legacy, to be sure, but the overall clarity of the subject is lost here (to say the least). As the lingo goes, jalopy. Advaita is a classic car, but does it really run? Its actual exemplars appear to validate its reality, but Schwartz is already accusing Poonja of creating false exemplars destined to crash and burn (Andrew Cohen for example), and that is very cruel: we are presented with an Indian export given to westerners as a baby pacifier, apparently…
Trust meter goes negative, we should attempt a ruthless examination of Advaita…But it gets a pass via its indirect ‘eonic’ status, but with a reminder that our deft ‘macro system’ which detects a problem with the Vedas, trying to sift out a real core, leaves Advaita with its Vedic trappings, which most yogis ignore anyway.
I will list the books I am looking at:
Brunton: The Direct Path, The Secret Path, Discover Yourself
the Ramana Maharsi corpus, Who am I?
Dennis Waite, Back to the Truth
James Schwartz, 2 books, Hot to Attain Enlightenment,
Vedanta, Vajraprana…various books on Vedanta…
Brunton, The Gift of Grace
Advaita, the truth of non-duality, Iyer
Advaita Vedanta, Deutsch
Enllightenment, the path thru the jungle, Waite
Teaching tradition of Advaita Vedanta, Saraswati
Conversaions on non-duality, edited, Gilbert
The Direct Path, Harvey
Awakening to the Dream Hartog
Wake up and roar Poomja
plus others…in other related fields….
I am being manipulated into a critique of advaita…after a similar case with Osho I know the perps now: dark side sufis. I wish no part of it. As we have seen such are looking for the weak point in any given teaching to plot the downfall of the seeker…EjGold style…
Actually the critique of advaita is inevitable and I can think of one easily: the clarification of advaita for many is so great they have an epiphany and think that they reached enlightenment. That’s not really a critique at all. But it is a point to be wary of your limitations.
Maybe you won’t be pursued by demonic sufis. But just in case don’t take a short path to enlightenment with overconfidence…
The only critique of the path to enlightenment that I know of is that human potential is far vaster than the ‘mere’ reaching of enlightenment. But I fail to see anyone able to deal with that. There aren’t any paths there….
There is something wrong here: Osho wrote a book called Beyond Enlightenment…what does that mean?
The issue could be that ‘enlightenment’ goes beyond will, but that could backfire.
I am putting an early crude draft of a book debriefing gurdjieffianity online at Dropbox: you can get the book at the link
It is still crude stuff, but it is good to get the info out asap…a print version will come out next year. (Scroll down empty page series to next chapter)
The question of Advaita is too complex to deal with with summary judgments.
I am puzzled: why is my opinion being asked for? Perhaps, I am the only one who will speak plainly. I will list the resources I have obtained, plus some videos.
The task for Indic teachers is to create a new ‘santana dharma’ that is free of its Vedic, Indo-European strain, with Jain, and Buddhist parallels seen in their context as part of that ‘eternal dharam’. Hindus think Buddhism is leading people into hell, given our critique of its fascist secret it is suddenly ironic to confront that legacy. But the buddhist tradition needs to be seen in its context as a universalization of the hopeless case hinduism.
The world is out of time to tolerate the law of caste in the background of people doing yoga. And the monopoly of brahman gurus, from Maharsi to the rest, needs to be shattered.
I don’t care to reach enlightenment with the current crop of degenerate gurus…and// The Advaita generation, a real path or a hoax?
The hidden world of gurus is desperate to get me enlightened thence in their camp…In desperation I am being shunted into Advaita where some fast realization might make me relent on my ‘spit in your face’ tactics in the transition by and by guru land.
I don’t care to reach enlightenment with this corpus of materials, or any of the other degenerate gurus and sufis, although I have responded to a Request for Comment on this legacy, which, unbelievably, I missed in all these years since the seventies.
I will refrain from snap judgments and reflect on the thirty books just acquired with credit card debt on the subject.
It hardly matters at this point. I suspect, and this is a guess on my part, that the legacy here is so confounded by its history that it is barely functional. The era of Shankara was the era of the triumph over and destruction of buddhism exiled from India to the vastness of Tibet and South Asia. And the legacy of Advaita like that of Vedanta is based on the false foundation of Vedism, with what confusion of its basic teaching we know not.
The failure to see that the Aryan invasions produced a false hybrid tradition of Aryan mythos and Vedism grafted onto ‘santana dharma’ has made the whole tradition of Hinduism a confusing labyrinth. And I have to wonder if the Aryans confronting ancient yogis weren’t just as tempted by a ‘short path’ as westerners are now with the strange lore of Advaita.
I am not at the point of being able to assess this apparition of the seventies to nineties. But it is being used it appears to create a crop of ‘realized quickeis’ to show some kind of result from the gang of frenzied westerners traveling the India circuit.
I cannot yet come to an understanding of this sector of the great Indian tradition, but it is already problematical in the way it has produced the confusions of Da Free John, Lozowick, and Andrew Cohen. I was unable of this whole side of Ramana Maharsi, an obscure figure who is more than his benign front.
For myself I am still zero for zero on all new age paths, and the sufi connection is nightmarishly worse. A big zero. Thanks a lot guys, known by your mugshots at this point…
I think Paul Brunton’s work The Short Path, in its first few pages can be helpful to many suffering The Gurdjieff Con, a false path in which you can be stuck forever in a treadmill…Escape…
A year of Osho invultuation…almost exhausted and staggering away from the master game almost depleted…
I have tried hard with the Osho sphere but I am exhausted at this point. One false move and this strange vampire, which I could admit is a sufi/gurdjieff can trying to destroy osho/legacy, and that’s the reason for my explosion of rage not only here but against the whole game.
It is bad enough on its own terms, but the realization of deep fascism in buddhism tells us to get on the move and enter a new future beyond the fake ‘new age’ movement.
I think that Tibetan buddhists could help here by staging a revolution against their own past, their suppressed nightmare. Who cares about the whole legacy of useless sutras and meditations that are rigged to fail all led by that fart the Dalai Lama, and smiling front that is coming to the end game, making us puke in place.
Some are wondering why given my remarks against jews I don’t just assume the Hitler mantle and turn my communist movement into…like in the twenties…fill in the blanks…
They misunderstand me completely. Review the archives here, on ‘antisemitic feints’, and the tactic of snaring Tibetan occultists on the prowl for potential antisemites and fascists. My antisemitic feint fooled them and they almost gave themselves away…
Despite a few bad remarks about Jews I am a strong philosemite (no kidding) and was hoping to catch a buddhist fascist in the act…
I think the question of jews is also a case of terminal Axial Age religion, and that judaism is ‘finished’, but that is a question of secular debate, no more, out in the open as a form of discourse not action or malevolent antisemitism. I think this is actually philosemitic in the sense that judaism is a quagmire for persons of jewish birth, who reincarnate briefly and get ripped off, and then reincarnate again outside that religion. I think the Axial Age religions as a whole should be critiqued. Etc…
I have already reached the point where I can’t open a buddhist sutra without trepidation. But what was Osho’s original source of information in his declaration about buddhists, almost at a whisper?
Buddhists have enough resources to research this issue, and should step aside from buddhism to do that. And the Tibetans need to be confronted here, and their occultists forced to spill the beans, where anything is still known. I think these poor people are mostly deluded fronts, so we don’t know how to proceed.
Very few grasp the mind control tactics of occult gurus and sufis (a very few of them). We have shown here how this blogger could be invultuated (briefly) across continents, and by, take a deep breath, dead buddhas, ghosts!
Is Osho exploiting this charge for his neo-buddhism? I don’t know but I doubt it, and I think that his gesture toward a teaching at least is a reminder that spiritual paths could disappear if buddhism gets exposed according to accusation. I think his own brand is on the line in this revelation.
Hinduism is not the answer so please forget that option. It is not a universal or open teaching and requires rebirth in the Indian culture. Yoga techniques can be exported but they are not the same as the fully equipped buddhism in its original form. The have already turned into a farce of the health and fitness industry. A big zero down the tubes.
I think an important distinction is with the emergence of Mahayana. The connection with Xtianity is not always clear, and the nature of the religion has changed in a subtle way. Read the fine print: noone is enlightened in Mahayana, or so it seems. That generates something very deadly. Something insidious lurks here, what is it?
Someone thought they had the perfect crime done and accomplished. Those evil Germans?
What is the jewish angle? Why on earth would esoteric buddhists wish to destroy jews? One possible answer is the Gotterdammerung effect: the buddhist remnant saw the new age coming, and wished to self-destruct buddhism and destroy the ‘jewsish conspiracy’ in one fell swoop along with their own disappearance. What, was there a conspiracy?